storyadvocate:

asocialjusticeleague:

whatisthisoutsideyouspeakof:

asocialjusticeleague:

soyelgrancapitan:

jaded4fox:

thankyoulordforhenrycavill:

frankenbaby:

edkn:

Everyone goes on an on about how crazy Batman is to dress like a bat and fight crime, how he’s just as insane as his rogues gallery. But the moment the films portray him with an /actual/ mental illness like ptsd, they freak out and make fun of it ad nausea. Just saying.

Because for nose people, the driven, obsessive Batman is an acceptable kind of crazy. Nolan’s Batman almost seemed a little ashamed of the Bat theme, which is why the vehicles and suit were repurposed military tech and the only concession to the theme was painting them black and the cowl and cape. After Batman Begins, we only saw Bat themed weapons once with the bat darts in Rises. The suit became more like armour. The theatricality was pretty thin after Begins. Besides that, Bruce just seemed like a man with a singular mission, waiting for the moment he could retire.
BvS’s Batman is seriously disturbed. Still having nightmares about his family, still having triggers, he’s unbalanced and dangerous. This is a man who is choosing to dress like a bat until somebody kills him. The bat was his coping mechanism, his comfort blanket, but now it’s just his routine, his addiction.
We finally got a Batman whose mental issues make sense and explain better why he’d dress as a bat and fight people every night, and it gets so much ridicule and misunderstanding.

Maybe it makes them uncomfortable that their male fantasy role model is a man who is dealing with serious trauma and mental illness. A man who isn’t as “cool” as they’d like him to be, as if being cool is the most important thing about him. They’ve attached a sort of toxic masculinity and invincibility to batman. It also shows how mental illness is still an “avoided” topic, how they’ve minimized/trivialized its influence/effect on the character.

Batman and Superman might be the biggest victims of hyper male power fantasy roles out of all the comic book characters.  Batman is dubbed cool because even though he has no powers, he is rich, has no boss and has a shitload of gadgets.  A lot of those Batman fans you guys are talking about don’t see why he should have a Robin and gloss over the moments in the comics where he shows kindness and empathy towards people, especially kids.  They also gloss over his paranoia and the trauma watching your parents get killed in front of you would bring. Hypermasculine men aren’t supposed have feelings or trauma!  They are supposed to do whatever they want consequences be damned!

And then there’s Superman. He isn’t rich, but he does have actual superpowers and is considered one of the most powerful superheroes ever.  Yeah haters deem him too powerful, but I’m not talking about haters.  I’m talking about the Superman fans who scream “Not muh Superman!” when it comes to Henry Cavill’s Superman.  They too buy into the hypermasculine idea that since Superman is so powerful then he must always be right. And since he’s the symbol of Hope, he must always be a perfect role model.  Always smiling,  always be a good example for humanity.  He can never have self doubt, or his own trauma that comes from fighting powerful villains like Zod(”Do the nightmares ever stop?”) A symbol of Hope must have none of these things.  Oh and he’s supposed to be able to save everyone all the time and if he doesn’t then he’s “selfish” and “apathetic”

There are many things about Batman v Superman I am grateful for, but the one thing I’m most grateful for is stripping away that toxic masculinity narrative and showing who Batman and Superman actually are.  They have always been more than the hypermasculine Might makes Right tropes that people want to slap on them.  They’ve been written to be more than that long before Zack Snyder came along.  It’s just nice to see it finally on the big screen

A lot of what you guys are saying is true but it doesn’t justify mass murdering Batman, if you remove that from the movie we arguably have the best Batman on the big screen. And Superman should absolutely NEVER doubt whether or not he should save people. What makes him Superman is that even if the whole world tells him to stop he won’t because he knows he should save people.

I am SO TIRED of this ridiculous argument. If you want heroes with flaws that can be fixed with a band aid inside of a two-hour movie, go back to the MCU they are HAPPY to provide that service. You’re arguing against some of the GREATEST Superman stories ever told right now, probably in defense of the dcau version or the Donner version of this character. Superman NEEDS self doubt, Batman NEEDS to make bad choices, these are just the needs of good storytelling.

Are you hearing yourself?? If the whole world authentically wanted Superman to stop what he was doing, HE WOULD, because he isn’t some bullshit paternal figure, he’s not our god, he is a man who can do more than most of the people on planet, and he absolutely needs to do so with our consent. How terrifying a hero would Superman be if he didn’t consider the consequences of his actions, if he didn’t consider the fallout? If he just DID things based on his own internal sense of right and wrong and never once questioned his choices? This is EXACTLY what Superman stories deal with; what he should and shouldn’t do, what he ought to use his power for. If you aren’t interested in seeing him wrestle with that, what the heck do you come to those stories for??

If you don’t like it, that’s fine, but stop confusing a narrative that’s not to your taste with a misinterpretation of these characters.

I agree with you on superman: self-reflection is a necessary path for his character to take because honestly, it’s a really human thing to do
But Batman indiscriminately killing is not a “hero with flaws” or a different interpretation of the characters
Affleck’s Batman’s mental illness as a fully realized thing was fantastic and incredibly welcome, but taking away his basic moral code of “no killing” ruins his basic character for me
Yes, he’s mentally ill and probably dangerous but the fact that he respects human life and puts limits on himself despite how violent he is makes him an actual hero for me, not a trussed up murderer like the punisher
For all people I follow are saying that this is the most accurate batman they’ve seen, I wanted my batman. A flawed, mentally ill, PTSD ridden vigilante yet with a vast family of orphans and outcasts, a kindness and a strict moral code that he truly believes in
I got a punisher rip off because edgier = deep in today’s comic world. Go figure

I mean, I agree with you that Batman wasn’t acting like Batman and that that was hurtful and frustrating, those are definitely emotions I felt, and if I thought that that wasn’t in a very large way the point of the narrative, I would feel like it was a writing mistake.

But the movie shows to me, over and over again, that we go from a character who IS Batman, running through the streets of Metropolis caring for its people and helping those on the ground, to a character who is basically NOT Batman, the creature that Bruce has created, (with A LOT of help from Lex Luthor, because Lex is a GREAT villain) the man wasting time and effort and resources on chasing a rock in order to execute an alien, to finally being someone on the road to being the Batman we know and love again, someone who respects that 20 years in gotham fighting crime is worth the time and it means something.

I mean, we should KNOW something is wrong because for him to discount all this good work he’s done is frightening and repugnant. It’s a betrayal of those of us who love this character, those of us to whom he means something. Something is very, very, wrong that needs to be fixed. That’s the whole point.

When I say Batman “makes bad decisions” that is a HUGE understatement. In this movie, Batman is destroying everything that he stands for. If the narrative thought he was on the right path, then Alfred wouldn’t be so pissed at him in literally every single scene they share.

Totally agree with that last comment. The Batman that Bruce becomes in this film isn’t meant to be the one we all know and love. We’re meant to see how far over the line he has gone, and how Superman ultimately helps him see that and changes him. We’re not supposed to be happy with the killing, or his obsession with killing an alien on the off chance he’ll go bad. The movie’s narrative clearly shows us it’s different and not ok. This is not who Batman should be.

Alfred is the stand-in for the audience, telling Bruce things have changed and not for the better, showing censure in everything he says to Bruce in this film. That whole exchange in the plane after Batman and Superman fight, where Bruce tell Alfred he doesn’t deserve him and Alfred replies “no sir, you don’t”, and later when Bruce realizes he needs Kryptonite weapons to tackle Doomsday, and Alfred tell him that would be helpful “if he had any left”. Oh the frustration and censure in his tone! Alfred isn’t just being sassy, he’s giving the hard truth to Bruce. If he hadn’t wasted his time trying to kill an innocent man he’d be better prepared. As he is now, Bruce doesn’t really deserve Alfred’s loyalty and service, even though Alfred will continue to give it.

This film was about showing the heroes we love at their darkest and most difficult point, where they almost lose themselves and their purpose. It’s not Zack’s definitive view of these characters, it’s showing that they can still be that symbol of hope and justice even after enduring challenges that strip them to their most basic levels.

This film is about losing oneself and finding it again. It’s about hope and change even in dark times. That Batman that you want, @whatisthisoutsideyouspeakof I’m willing to bet that we will see for real in Justice League. We are continually hearing about how Bruce has been inspired by Clark’s example, that he is more hopeful, that he is more caring, even of the criminals he fights. We’re getting to that Batman, and this was the transition piece to get us there.

This approach may not work for everyone, but I loved it because seeing a hero I love truly struggle and then decide to do what’s right even in the face of loss and hardship is far more affecting to me than one who simply is that way and never deviates. It makes them far more relatable and human to me.