tomorrowwoman:

chewvbacca:

allie-jones:

chewvbacca:

if failure is meant to be the theme of TLJ…. then Leia should have admonished Holdo for her failure to lead and communicate effectively. half the crew mutinied against her because she was literally saying “launch yourself out in the escape pods” and they were like “what then?? will we just wait in the pods until we run out of air or until the first order sees us??” and she gave them NOTHING, no sign she had a plan beyond that, just “get in the pods”. she didn’t even tell officers on the bridge what she was planning, because Connix joined the mutiny too!! she literally let them all think she was leading them to their deaths just to go “sike!!” at the last minute, which is remarkably cruel and not the sign of a good leader

Um, she was the military commander of the Rebellion. In what universe does a military commander explain their orders to low-ranking officers like random bridge crew? Especially when they’re being tracked by an enemy with a tech they don’t know and there’s a possibility of spying or sabotage?

Why should she explain her plan to a jerk who was just busted back in rank, keeps bursting onto her bridge and ranting and accuses her of treason and cowardice in what is literally their second conversation?

Holdo had good reason to not tell very many people what her plan was–if the First Order found out, the transports would literally be sitting ducks getting picked off by cannon fire. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. Poe told Finn the plan on an unsecured line and was overheard by the hacker and he sold the info to the First Order. So Holdo was 100% right not to tell Poe what happened and he is 100% responsible for the deaths of those people.

Thank you for sharing the baddest of bad takes.

I don’t care whether you think she was justified in her decision. She couldn’t keep control of her ship for less than a day ERGO she failed as a leader. She couldn’t keep morale up and literally inspired a mutiny in nearly 18 hours, which is nearly impressively bad leadership. Good leaders control their ship, she didn’t. In a movie where other characters are punished for their failures but Holdo doesn’t learn from hers and develop as a character, it amounts to bad writing. Which is what my original post is about.

Secondly this whole “she was higher ranking, she doesn’t have to tell anyone” bullshit is insidious and frankly fucking dangerous. Yeah man, let’s all just blindly follow orders we think are morally wrong. Like. You’re really going to write an arc with that message one (1) movie after you have Finn disobey his superiors because he thought his orders were wrong??? Leaders shouldn’t be dictators and I didn’t think that was news to anyone?? But you know what, I guess those rebels in the OT were wrong to rebel against Palpatine, because the Emperor was the ultimate authority of the state they lived in. Like gosh, don’t they know we shouldn’t question authority and just accept it when it looks like they’re sending us off to die??? A simple line about how Poe’s integrity and willingness to stand up to what he thinks is wrong, even if he misjudged this case, would go a long way in counteracting this. But it doesn’t suit the people that want to villianize Poe and praise Holdo as someone who can do no wrong, which displays your own priorities and the cognitive dissonance between this arc and the rest of the franchise, and between those who praise this arc but say they love the saga.

Thirdly, let’s go into the technicalities you got wrong in this condescending reply of yours. 1. Bridge crew aren’t random and low ranking – they’re literally command, and would be vital in organising a successful evacuation. 2. Rose Tico, a general mechanic, was able to figure out how they were being tracked, but you expect me to believe the people on the bridge couldn’t figure it out and as such they suspect there’s a spy? Even if I am expected to believe that, there’s no hint of them believing there’s a spy. This is a reach and completely unfounded within the movie. It’s works as a head canon maybe, but you can’t use it to justify her actions because it’s literally not in the movie. A solution would be to literally give us a line about them thinking there’s a traitor – but they don’t, because uhhhh, idk adding 1 more line would have streched their $200 million budget too far?? No, it’s just lazy writing. 3. Yeah, I can buy her initially not telling Poe because he has recently disobeyed orders. But this can only go on for so long before the suspension of disbelief fails. Why doesn’t she tell him when he pulls the gun on her, literally 1 minute before they’re about to board the transports?? When Leia tells Poe the plan, he accepts it immediately and there’s no reason to think he’d act differently if he was told a little earlier. It’s not going to be a secret much longer, so why?? If it’s because she’s too proud to explain herself to the man mutinying against her, then it needs to be recognised she didn’t do her best to stop the mutiny because of her pride, because that’s a pretty epic failure on her part. If it’s because she “doesn’t want to seem like a hero”, then it has to be recognised that she was too concerned with what other people thought of her to command effectively. But I’ll tell you why it really happens – because Rian Johnson wanted it to. Its absolutely contrived. 4. If she doesn’t tell very many people her plan, then how does she expect a successful evacuation? If she did tell a decent number of people, are we really supposed to think that no hint of this plan reached Poe or the other people involved in this mutiny? It doesn’t make sense for her not to tell people, especially people who think they’re doomed. Like letting them think they’re doomed is just an asshole thing to do??? But they should have had hope when they couldn’t see it (despite the fact they didn’t have hope was because she was withholding hope from them by not telling them). But it’s never called out (even though everyone else’s failures in this movie are called out). 5. Acting like without Poe telling Finn about the transports her plan would have worked is just bizarre. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but most of the bridge on the Star Destroyer is built around glass. Her big plan, regardless of what Poe does, is to hope they don’t look out the fucking windows and see them flying to Crait???? And we’re meant to think her plan is really crafty and clever??? WHAT. 6. If you’re really as married to the whole military rank thing as you act, then no, Holdo is at fault for those deaths, because she was their commander. She came up with the plan, she decided how to implement it, she didn’t think of a plan B quick enough when things went bad. As commander, that’s her job.

The whole arc is bad and lazy writing. Themes are dropped and picked up whenever it suits Rian Johnson, eg. how her suicide run is framed as heroic, but the bombers giving up their lives to destroy the Dreadnaught is Bad and Finn risking his to stop the battering cannon is Bad. Like is consistency within a movie suddenly too much to ask for?? Even if you think she’s initially justified in her actions, there comes a point where it’s just ridiculous and only happens because Rian Johnson wanted it to but wasn’t bothered to give it grounding in universe. She’s given no character development in a 2.5 hour long movie, her motivations aren’t really explored, and she’s then killed off to teach Poe a lesson? It’s terrible writing of a female character in a leadership position, one who was our first on screen confirmed LGBT character in Star Wars and who could have very easily be given a lot more nuance with a few extra lines. The character deserved better and we the fans deserved better. But sure, if you want to keep on with that surface level analysis of yours, be my guest, but at least make your own post so I don’t have to suffer through it

Yeah there’s MANY issues with how the communication went.

Even the teach Poe a lesson bit doesn’t really make sense. His LESSON was ALL the way at the beginning of the film.

Lesson 1

1) Poe, our lives are what REALLY matters. We have to keep the Rebellion alive.

Poe: Shit. You’re right. I’ve been acting cocky. You’re right Space Mom.

What is somehow supposed to be Lesson 2

2) New Leader, who has barely been heard of by Poe, Poe who’s one of the most connected members of the Rebellion, is now trying to understand this new leader. She seems to have no plan and seems to be leading the Rebellion to its death. Morale is at extreme low. Members of the Rebellion are dying seemingly for NO reason whatsoever just to give the main Rebellion ship some extra time. The new Leader’s made it very clear my opinion means nothing to her, so I have to at least TRY to help and hope she has a plan. Crap. Her plan is horrendous.

Poe: Great. Since I realize the Rebellion’s survival is what ultimately matters I HAVE to stop this new seemingly reckless leader. Let’s go.